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It was announced at Cannes this year that Vietnamese zen monk Thich Naht Hanh's biography of the Buddha, Old Path White Clouds,
would form the basis of Dr BK Modi's long gestating $120m Buddha
biopic. The film was originally floated 12 years ago at a time when
Mira Nair was set to direct, and has now - with the support of the
Dalai Lama - resurfaced driven by billionaire Indian media tycoon
Modi. The production is expected to be directed by Shekher Kapor
and executive produced by Michel Shane and Anthony Romano ("I Robot,"
"Catch Me If You Can") who have talked about making the film 'like
Gladiator meets Lawrence of Arabia'.
However, it is the involvement of Naht Hanh
that grabbed my interest. "I discovered the book two years ago
and it changed my life, and I felt it was up to me to share my
happiness with the world." says Modi of Naht Hanh's Old Path White Clouds,
which has sold 1m copies in the US. Exiled from his homeland of Vietnam
since the 60s only to return last year, author of some 80 books, Naht Hanh ('Thay') is tireless in speaking up for peace and
international understanding. In nominating him for the Nobel Peace
Prize, Dr Martin Luther King said: 'I do not personally know of anyone
more worthy of [this prize] than this gentle monk from Vietnam.
His ideas for peace, if applied, would build a monument to
ecumenism, to world brotherhood, to humanity.' It's quite hard to
know what Dr King means without reading some of Thich Naht Hanh's
writing - what follows is an interview made shortly after September 11,
as he was promoting the book I first came across him through, Anger.
What I Would Say to
Osama bin Laden
Zen monk Thich Nhat
Hanh talks about how listening is the first step towards peace.
Interview by Anne
A. Simpkinson Beliefnet.com October 2001
Thich Nhat Hanh is a Vietnamese monk in the Zen tradition, who worked
tirelessly for peace during the Vietnam War, rebuilding villages destroyed
by the hostilities. Following an anti-war lecture tour in the United
States, he was not allowed back in his country and settled in France. In
1967, he was nominated by the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., for the
Nobel Peace Prize. He is now internationally known for his teaching and
writing on mindfulness, and for his work related to "socially engaged
Buddhism," a call to social action based on Buddhist principles. Thay,
as he is affectionately called by his followers, shared his thoughts on how
America should respond to the terrorist attacks. This interview will appear
in a forthcoming book entitled "From the Ashes: A Spiritual Response
to the Attack on America," to be published jointly by Beliefnet and
Rodale Press.
All violence is injustice. The fire of hatred and violence cannot be
extinguished by adding more hatred and violence to the fire. The only
antidote to violence is compassion.
If you could speak to Osama bin Laden, what would you say to him?
Likewise, if you were to speak to the American people, what would you suggest we
do at this point, individually and as a nation?
If I were given the opportunity to be face to face with Osama bin Laden,
the first thing I would do is listen. I would try to understand why he had
acted in that cruel way. I would try to understand all of the suffering
that had led him to violence. It might not be easy to listen in that way,
so I would have to remain calm and lucid. I would need several friends with
me, who are strong in the practice of deep listening, listening without
reacting, without judging and blaming. In this way, an atmosphere of
support would be created for this person and those connected so that they
could share completely, trust that they are really being heard.
After listening for some time, we might need to take a break to allow what
has been said to enter into our consciousness. Only when we felt calm and
lucid would we respond. We would respond point by point to what had been
said. We would respond gently but firmly in such a way to help them to
discover their own misunderstandings so that they will stop violent acts
from their own will. For the American people, I would suggest that we do
everything we can to restore our calm and our lucidity before responding to
the situation. To respond too quickly before we have much understanding of
the situation may be very dangerous. The first thing we can do is to cool
the flames of anger and hatred that are so strong in us. As mentioned
before, it is crucial to look at the way we feed the hatred and violence
within us and to take immediate steps to cut off the nourishment for our
hatred and violence.
When we react out of fear and hatred, we do not yet have a deep
understanding of the situation. Our action will only be a very quick and
superficial way of responding to the situation and not much true benefit
and healing will occur. Yet if we wait and follow the process of calming
our anger, looking deeply into the situation, and listening with great will
to understand the roots of suffering that are the cause of the violent
actions, only then will we have sufficient insight to respond in such a way
that healing and reconciliation can be realized for everyone involved.
In South Africa, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission has made attempts
to realize this. All the parties involved in violence and injustice agreed
to listen to each other in a calm and supportive environment, to look
together deeply at the roots of violent acts and to find agreeable
arrangements to respond to the situations. The presence of strong spiritual
leaders is very helpful to support and maintain such an environment. We can
look at this model for resolving conflicts that are arising right in the
present moment; we do not have to wait many years to realize this.
You personally experienced the devastation caused by the war fought in
Vietnam and worked to end the hostilities there. What do you say to people who
are grief-stricken and enraged because they have lost loved ones in the
terrorist attack?
I did lose my spiritual sons and daughters during the war when they were
entering the fighting zone trying to save those under the bombs. Some were
killed by war and some by murder due to the misunderstanding that they were
supporting the other side. When I looked at the four slain corpses of my
spiritual sons murdered in such a violent way, I suffered deeply.
I understand the suffering of those who have lost beloved ones in this
tragedy. In situations of great loss and grief, I had to find my calm in
order to restore my lucidity and my heart of understanding and compassion.
With the practice of deep looking, I realized that if we respond to cruelty
with cruelty, injustice and suffering will only increase.
When we learned of the bombing of the Bentra village in Vietnam, where
300,000 homes were destroyed, and the pilots told journalists that they had
destroyed the village in order to save it, I was shocked, and [racked] with
anger and grief. We practiced walking calmly and gently on the earth to
bring back our calm mind and peaceful heart.
Although it is very challenging to maintain our openness in that moment, it
is crucial that we not respond in any way until we have calmness and
clarity with which to see the reality of the situation. We knew that to
respond with violence and hatred would only damage ourselves and those
around us. We practiced [so that we might] look deeply into the suffering
of the people inflicting violence on us, to understand them more deeply and
to understand ourselves more deeply. With this understanding we were able
to produce compassion and to relieve our own suffering and that of the
other side.
What is the “right action” to take with regard to responding to
terrorist attacks? Should we seek justice through military action? Through
judicial processes? Is military action and/or retaliation justified if it can
prevent future innocents from being killed?
All violence is injustice. The fire of hatred and violence cannot be
extinguished by adding more hatred and violence to the fire. The only
antidote to violence is compassion. And what is compassion made of? It is
made of understanding. When there is no understanding, how can we feel
compassion, how can we begin to relieve the great suffering that is there?
So understanding is the very real foundation upon which we build our
compassion.
How do we gain the understanding and insight to guide us through such
incredibly challenging moments that we are now face in America? To
understand, we must find paths of communication so that we can listen to
those who desperately are calling out for our understanding--because such
an act of violence is a desperate call for attention and for help.
How can we listen in a calm and clear way so that we don’t immediately
kill the chance for understanding to develop? As a nation we need to look
into this: how to create the situations for deep listening to occur so that
our response to the situation may arise out of our calm and clear mind.
Clarity is a great offering that we can make at this time.
There are people who want one thing only: revenge. In the Buddhist
scriptures, the Buddha said that by using hatred to answer hatred, there
will only be an escalation of hatred. But if we use compassion to embrace
those who have harmed us, it will greatly diffuse the bomb in our hearts
and in theirs.
So how can we bring about a drop of compassion that can put out the fire of
hatred? You know, they do not sell compassion in the supermarket. If they
sold compassion, we would only need to bring it home and we could solve the
problem of hatred and violence in the world very easily. But compassion can
only be produced in our own heart by our own practice.
America is burning with hatred. That is why we have to tell our Christian
friends, "You are children of Christ." You have to return to
yourselves and look deeply and find out why this violence happened. Why is
there so much hatred? What lies under all this violence? Why do they hate
so much that they would sacrifice their own lives and bring about so much
suffering to other people? Why would these young people, full of vitality
and strength, have chosen to lose their lives, to commit such violence?
That is what we have to understand.
We have to find a way to stop violence, of course. If need be, we have to
put the men responsible in prison. But the important thing is to look
deeply and ask, "Why did that happen? What responsibility do we have
in that happening? " Maybe they misunderstood us. But what has made
them misunderstand us so much to make them hate so much?
The method of the Buddha is to look deeply to see the source of suffering;
the source of the violence. If we have violence within ourselves, any
action can make that violence explode. This energy of hatred and violence
can be very great and when we see that in the other person then we feel
sorry for them. When we feel sorry for them, the drop of compassion is born
in our hearts and we feel so much happier and so much more at peace in
ourselves. That [empathy] produces the nectar of compassion within
ourselves.
If you come to the monastery, it is in order to learn to do that, so that
whenever you suffer and feel angry, you know how to look deeply, so that
the drop of compassion in your heart can come out of your heart and can put
out the fever of anger. Only the drop of compassion that can put out the
flames of hatred.
We must look deeply and honestly at our present situation. If we are able
to see the sources for the suffering within ourselves and within the other
person, we can begin to unravel the cycle of hatred and violence. When our
house is on fire, we must first put out the fire before investigating its
cause. Likewise, if we first extinguish the anger and hatred in our own
heart, we will have a chance to deeply investigate the situation with
clarity and insight in order to determine all the causes and conditions
that have contributed to the hatred and violence we are experiencing within
ourselves and within our world.
The “right action” is the action that results in the fires of hatred
and violence being extinguished.
Do you believe that evil exists? And, if so, would you consider terrorists
as evil persons?
Evil exists. God exists also. Evil and God are two sides of ourselves.
God is that great understanding, that great love within us. That is what we
call Buddha also, the enlightened mind that is able to see through all
ignorance.
What is evil? It is when the face of God, the face of the Buddha within us
has become hidden. It is up to us to choose whether the evil side becomes
more important, or whether the side of God and the Buddha shines out.
Although the side of great ignorance, of evil, may be manifesting so
strongly at one time that does not mean that God is not there.
It is said clearly in the Bible, “Forgive them for they know not what
they do.” This means that an act of evil is an act of great ignorance and
misunderstanding. Perhaps many wrong perceptions are behind an act of evil;
we have to see that ignorance and misunderstanding is the root of the evil.
Every human being contains within him or herself all the elements of great
understanding, great compassion, and also ignorance, hatred, and violence.
In your new book “Anger,” you give an example of “compassionate
listening” as a tool to heal families. Can that tool be used at a national
level, and if so, how would that work?
This past summer a group of Palestinians and Israelis came to Plum
Village, the practice center where I live in southern France, to learn and
practice the arts of deep listening and loving speech. (Around 1,600 people
come to Plum Village each summer from over a dozen countries to listen and
to learn how to bring peace and understanding to their daily lives.) The
group of Palestinians and Israelis participated in the daily schedule of
walking meditation, sitting meditation, and silent meals, and they also
received training on how to listen and speak to each other in such a way
that more understanding and peace could be possible between them as
individuals and as nations.
With the guidance and support of the monks and nuns, they sat down and
listened to each other. When one person spoke no one interrupted him or
her. Everyone practiced mindfulness of their breathing and listening in
such a way that the other person felt heard and understood.
When a person spoke, they refrained from using words of blame, hatred, and
condemnation. They spoke in an atmosphere of trust and respect. Out of
these dialogues the participating Palestinians and Israelis were very moved
to realize that both sides suffer from fear. They appreciated the practice
of deep listening and made arrangements to share what they had learned with
others upon returning to their home countries.
We recommended that the Palestinians and Israeli talk about their
suffering, fears, and despair in a public forum that all the world could
hear. We could all listen without judging, without condemning in order to
understand the experience of both sides. This would prepare the ground of
understanding for peace talks to occur.
The same situation now exists between the American people and people of
Islamic and Arabic nations. There is much misunderstanding and lack of the
kind of communication that hinders our ability to resolve our difficulties
peacefully.
Compassion is a very large part of Buddhism and Buddhist practice. But at
this point in time, compassion towards terrorists seems impossible to muster. Is
it realistic to think people can feel true compassion now?
Without understanding, compassion is impossible. When you understand the
suffering of others, you do not have to force yourself to feel compassion,
the door of your heart will just naturally open. All of the hijackers were
so young and yet they sacrificed their lives for what? Why did they do
that? What kind of deep suffering is there? It will require deep listening
and deep looking to understand that.
To have compassion in this situation is to perform a great act of
forgiveness. We can first embrace the suffering, both outside of America
and within America. We need to look after the victims here within our
country and also to have compassion for the hijackers and their families
because they are also victims of ignorance and hatred. In this way we can
truly practice non-discrimination. We do not need to wait many years or
decades to realize reconciliation and forgiveness. We need a wake up call
now in order not to allow hatred to overwhelm our hearts.
Do you believe things happen for a reason? If so, what was the reason for
the attacks on the U.S.A.?
The deep reason for our current situation is our patterns of
consumption. U.S.A. citizens consume 60% of the world’s energy resources
yet they account for only 6% of the total world’s population. Children in
America have witnessed 100,000 acts of violence on television by the time
they finish elementary school. Another reason for our current situation is
our foreign policy and the lack of deep listening within our relationships.
We do not use deep listening to understand the suffering and the real needs
of people in other nations.
What do you think would be the most effective spiritual response to this
tragedy?
We can begin right now to practice calming our anger, looking deeply at
the roots of the hatred and violence in our society and in our world, and
listening with compassion in order to hear and understand what we have not
yet had the capacity to hear and to understand. When the drop of compassion
begins to form in our hearts and minds, we begin to develop concrete
responses to our situation. When we have listened and looked deeply, we may
begin to develop the energy of brotherhood and sisterhood between all
nations, which is the deepest spiritual heritage of all religious and
cultural traditions. In this way the peace and understanding within the
whole world is increased day by day.
To develop the drop of compassion in our own heart is the only effective
spiritual response to hatred and violence. That drop of compassion will be
the result of calming our anger, looking deeply at the roots of our
violence, deep listening, and understanding the suffering of everyone
involved in the acts of hatred and violence.
source: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/88/story_8872.html
24th October 2001
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