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 Who gets the first cut on a Harry Potter film these days? Thanks to
desktop editing
many scenes are now roughly edited on set - and in some cases effects
and music added - so that the director can tell if a sequence is
working before progressing.
Meet Dan Hartley, the UK's first 'Floor
Editor', who got into the film industry by walking onto set, knocking
on a 2nd AD's trailer and asking for a job (within a fortnight he was
driving Ewan, Ray and Bob around Soho). He's also author of the Rogue
Runner gonzo blog (occasionally seen on Netribution) and director of
the acclaimed short film Love You Joseff Hughes, currently screening
online and at Cannes in a mini competition. For anyone looking for
proof that you don't need to go to film school to make it in the
industry, Dan provides hope a plenty that commitment and enthusiasm
will win out and that you can progress from extra to runner to key
player on a blockbuster and back to short filmmaker. Either that or he's the
king of the blaggers.
 In a first for me and Netribution, I decided to
interview him on iChat, and the slightly cleaned up results follow. For those in
Cannes, look out for his Rogue Runner van, which will be doing guerilla
screenings of a number of films around the centre over the weekend
(20/5/6)
When did you get the bug?
I can give you an exact date. Valentines day 1996. I broke up with
my then Amercian girlfriend and suddenly had an idea for a screenplay.
Not too sure why but I began writing the same afternoon and didn't stop
for about a year. I was doing a law degree at the time so it was a
welcome distraction.
A feature?
Yeah it was a feature called The Greyman. I wrote short stories
when I was growing up but at the time I was writing essays like Equal
opportunities in the Law and Socio-economics of the household. The
latter because I had taken a social studies module to try and boost my
score.
Sounds fun
Dreary, dreary degree. It felt like we were the only ones who
actually worked whilst all the other students went out five nights a
week. We could only manage 3.
Where were you studying?
Newcastle University 94 -97
Which would make you 30?
32 now. Long story but my family emmigrate to Australia when I was
16 and because the year starts in feb I was held back. After Oz I
travelled for another 18 months before my degree.
When did you decide to attempt to make a full time career of making films?
Pretty much a couple of weeks into writing the screenplay I became
convinced that I could write the ultimate film. Blind naivety and
enthusiasm enabled me to write that film and I became convinced that I
could make it in the industry. The greyman was supposed to be that film
and it now collects dust in my bottom drawer. It took me about a year
to write and then I realised it wasn't going anywhere so began to look
for a way to break in whilst I kept on writing.
What was it about?
Lousy film. It was a typical first time and as such it was about
the exploits of a bunch of university students. It was supposed to be a
new Withnail but wasn't. The title came from Bravo Two Zero of all
places. Greyman is the persona that a captive soldiers should take on
to reveal nothing. The script was ironically apt.
So what happened next.. further training?
So then travels. Returned to Alaska where I'd previously worked as
a waiter and managed to get some work experience with a company called
Sprocketheads. Following that went back to Oz and got some work
experience and then returned to Uk and managed to get a job on a
feature film as a minibus driver. I'd returned to my folks in Yorkshire
and was about to move to London to find work in film when they saw an
advert in the local paper asking for extras for a feature film. I went
with a cobbled together cv saying that I was available 24/7 and they
took me on. The film lasted about 8 weeks and then I moved to London.
By which time you were hooked?
Not entirely. I remember thinking that it was really boring and the
hours were really long but I still took the view that I had an
incredible screenplay in me that I could get made if I knew the right
people. Really, really boring. I now know it gets better the more
central to the process that you are but on the periphery it's pure
dull. Well the Yorkshire film gave me a few contacts but didn't lead to
any offers of work so when I moved to London I began temping. Then one
day I was undertaking a huge walk around London and bumped into a film
being shot.I approached the 2nd a.d asking for work and as he'd done
his knee in, he said I would run for him. That was a film called 'Tube
Tales' which had 8 guest directors including Bob Hoskins, Ewen
Macgregor, Jude Law and other big names
I remember it.. Sky pictures were involved. Not a bad start - what was your technique in getting the 2AD to say yes?
Yeah it was Sky's first I think. There wasn't much too it really. I
literally knocked on his trailer and told him that I'd just done a film
and was looking for work. Excellent timing because the film split into
two units and they needed a runner/driver and I got the job. Which was
great but I'd never driven in London before and suddenly I'm picking up
Ray and Bob and driving Ewan to the lab.
Do you get people come up to you on the Potter sets asking similar things?
I certainly meet a lot of people who ask if I can get them some
work, be it for themselves or a friend. With Potter it's less likely as
we're cocooned away near Watford behind a security fence but folk who
know me field requests. I've tried to help as many people as I can get
into the industry. I employ two assistants and they were selected not
on their experience but enthusiasm and personality. Along the way I've
helped people become runners and try to ive advice when I can. My
roguerunner diaries were intended to be instructive albeit in a rather
gonzo way.
When did they start?
On the strength of 'Tube Tales' I was introduced to a runners diary
service (a little like an agent) and they got me work as a runner. All
up I did two years and it was in the last 3 months the diary started.
And when did you start making films?
About a year into running I made a dv short called 'Bright Sparks'
which was a fake documentary about a school that had been opened up to
train Film industry electricians in the skills necessary to swear,
argue with production, calculate overtime, that sort of thing. It was
half decent but too long and with poor sound. It's a dust collector
though I might revisit at some point.
Is there much time in the runner's life to make films.. it seems v long hours..
You can be lucky. Working on commercials as I mainly did pays about
over a £100 per day and you generally average a 3 or 4 day week. So
although the days are long you do get days off and you can choose not
to work.
How would you advise a complete newbie to get in? go around the city apporaching film shoots?
Well my diary service gave me a list of about 30 production
companies in Soho, London and I called on the ones on the list and
asked if it would be okay if I popped around that afternoon and handed
over a C.V. Making that initial and then being polite and enthusiastic
seemed to give me an edge on all the other CV droppers. I actually got
a call the same day to see whether I might be able to drive a new
Mercedez from Germany to Spain. For a shoot.
Can you give me a quick run down on the other films before Joseff Hughes?
I tried another one after Potter 1 but it was set outside and rain
stuffed us. Most of them have been in the last two years. I've done two
24 hour challenges and I shot a music video with my girlfriends teddy
bear whilst on holiday in the states and that's about it. I think I've
done about 4 films before 'Love you.' all dv for no money with non-prof
cast.
What have you been doing on the Harry Potter films?
On Potter I'm a video operator. The job essentially requires acting
as an intermediary between camera and director. I take a video feed
from the camera record it and play it out onto the directors monitors.
I also do a lot of editing on the floor using final cut pro so that the
director can see whether the sequence is working straight away. I do
see what we shoot as we shoot it and can often be the first person to
make creative decisions about how to cut it, even if my cut isn't
followed by the editor.
Sounds like quite a bit of creative control
Certainly with the 2nd unit director on the first four films I had
a large degree of creative control because he enjoyed challenging me
and would let me make my own cut and then he'd make requests based on
that. Most of the major action sequences I've cut and then the director
has used that cut to talk to the producers and main unit director in
order to showcase how he thinks it could look.
Did you train in Final Cut Pro?
No never tained in Final Cut Pro. Started out on premiere which I
learnt on the set, literally as we were shooting - the computer arrived
in the morning and I was cutting in the afternoon.
You got the job as video operator on the Potter film and you only
got to learn desktop editing in the afternoon of the day you started?
Longish story but very basic editing I had to learn on the spot as
they were doing a shot on no. 1 with 3 ghosts that I had to composite
together. So the computer arrived in the morning, I unpacked it, tried
to figure out how to use it.
How long have studios been using this? Since desktop editing was standard, I guess?
Well my job doesn't exist on smaller productions because they won't
justify it in the budget so they don't use a video op at all. I think
people have been set editing for the past 7 years or so but on Potter
the extent of what I do is far beyond that of most films. They actually
created the position of 'floor editor' for me as it didn't exist before
as recognizable title, in England anyway.
Wow. So you've really been able to define a new job - almost from
scratch - on one of the most successful franchises in the world.
I didn't so much create the job as the director created it for me.
As each film progressed he embraced editing and with it my skills
progressed. Final cut pro is an incredibly versatile package and so I
can create multiple layers, add foley and music and create something
that can showcase his material to great effect.
How did Love You Joseff Hughes - your short (in competition during Cannes at www.silenceooncourt.tv) come about?
'Love you...' fell into my hands at the end of no. 4 when I asked a
girl from the production office to flat sit for me. She (Catrin
Cooper) had written the script a few months before and wanted my
opinion on it.
What was your first impression?
I really loved it. It was an absolutely enchanting script. Wonderful dialogue, charming and poignant.
It seems there's a real vogue to having young people in shorts in
this country. But I don't think I've seen a love story between two
before.
It's a bit like if you want to win an oscar, you feature someone
with a disability. Kids work great in short films, though they probably
feature too often. You're right though I don't think many are love
stories and though we didn't decide to shoot it because it was
different in that regard, I'm certainly glad now as it sets our film
apart I think.
Did you self finance it?
Yeah totally. I'd earmarked the period after Harry Potter 4 as the
time when I would do my first 'proper' short and so I knew that I'd
have to spend some of my savings on it. I'd been rejected for funding
three years running and so I wasn't prepared to wait either. So as soon
as Cat asked me to direct it I began putting it into pre-production
straight away. I had a dream budget of £5k but ultimately it was near
£13k and luckily my producer put in about £5k of that
Who is your producer?
Sandra Gorel. We met when I put a post on Shooting People. She's an
ex BBC lady who pioneered interactive tv. Best still though she's a
great laugh.
How did you lure Sandra onto it - was it a post to the Script Pitch Network?
No it was a filmmaker post. Basically director seeks producer for
collaboration on a no. of shorts. This is my background etc. We'd met
several months before and then the script turned up after so we were
geared up and ready. We're still partners now.
When did you decide it would be (mainly) black and white?
My director on Potter and Joe Dunton who runs a camera facility
house were having a chat and both these blokes now in their sixties
have an 'old school' aesthetic and were very passionate
about me shooting black and white 'scope' or anamoprhic. That planted
in my head the idea of transitioning to colour and so I went with their
judgement. We actually though had to shoot the whole thing colour and
then take out the chroma.
What did you shoot on?
35mm. Joe gave me the camera's for free, stock I blagged off
potter. It was cheap but costs still mount up. The script was set on an
island off North Wales but we could only shoot so much there that was
flattering, so I cheated a lot of the dialogue scenes to stoke
newington cemetry in London.
Ah I thought I recognised it. How did you find the kids?
We put an advert in the local paper in Wales (local papers man!)
and we auditioned 50 kids with essentially no experience and chose the
two you see in the film. They were first choice from day 1.
How did you help them to deal with what at times seems quite adult emotions?
In the audition it was clear that they had the skills, they
listened to one another as though they were hearing the words for the
first time - which was a clincher for me. The dialogue is very innocent
and so it wasn't that hard for them to understand it. The power of the
script comes from the subtext which is 'do you love me?'
Was it this aspect that attracted you most to the project?
It wasn't necessary to elevate their readings to adult, rather it
was my job to keep the adult world of filmmaking from interfering with
their childlike curiosities and innocence. Absolutely good writing is
suggested not spoken.
I've seen kids directed badly. My goal was to try to remove them from
the technical and speak to them in a way that would register.
Did you draw on personal experiences for this? It seems it was love / or not that propelled you into film.
I'm a bit of a romantic. if you disculde breaking up on valentines day that is.
What has people's responses been like? I've found myself with tears both times I watched this.
The comments I usually get is that it's a beautiful film, the kids
are great and that people love its simplicity. It does certainly move
people often, of both sexes and I think it's a testament to the
children that they engage with an audience in that way and it also
delights me that all of us big adults have some experience of first
love that it touches upon and for a moment it brings back those initial
trembling moments.
It does. Where can people see it in Cannes?
It's showing in the Cannes Short film corner and it's a finalist in
their online competition at http://www.silenceoncourt.tv. Better still
though we've equipped the rogue van with a huge screen and will be
touring the festival and playing it to people on the streets at cafe's
and bars on friday and saturday night. With our hotrold styled luton
van it will be hard to miss.
You can read about the rogue runner's exploits at www.roguerunner.com
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My name\'s Ashley and I love the Harry Potter movies. I cac\'t beleive that the davinci code was searched for more than the Harry Potter movies!